% of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

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% of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par potzer » 10 Mai 2016 23:32

I'll Google translate this into French, though that never works very well.

When you look at a player's profile, you see the % of games they won, which is a silly statistic because you don't know how many players they typically play against. A 33% win record is terrible if you only ever play duels, but if you play 6-player games, it is quite good!

What if this column were replaced with a "% of opponents beaten" statistic? If you place 2nd in a 5 player game, then you beat 75% of your opponents. This seems like a much better and more useful indicator of performance.

--


Je vais Google traduire en français , bien que cela ne marche jamais très bien .

Quand vous regardez le profil d'un joueur, vous voyez le % des jeux qu'ils ont gagné , ce qui est une statistique idiote parce que vous ne savez pas combien de joueurs jouent généralement contre . Un record de victoire de 33% est terrible si vous ne jouez jamais duels , mais si vous jouez à des jeux 6 joueurs, il est très bon !

Que faire si cette colonne ont été remplacés par un " % des adversaires battus " statistique? Si vous placez 2 dans un jeu à 5 joueurs , alors vous battre 75% de vos adversaires . Cela semble être un indicateur beaucoup mieux et plus utile de la performance .
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par potzer » 10 Mai 2016 23:35

hm. It looks like the word "silly" translates to "idiote", which sounds more insulting than I intended :)
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par diplojak » 11 Mai 2016 9:39

don't worry, silly seems to me as much insulting as idiote ;)

it could be changed. but not easy to recalculate for former games.
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par Josquin » 11 Mai 2016 9:58

... but that would be so nice to change it!

(... and perhaps my stats would be less humiliating ... ) :boulet:
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par Guitou » 11 Mai 2016 11:29

I agree with this!!! Currently, pourcentages are not very significiant...
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par potzer » 11 Mai 2016 15:03

diplojak a écrit :don't worry, silly seems to me as much insulting as idiote ;)

it could be changed. but not easy to recalculate for former games.


heh... thats... comforting, i guess.

It would be fine with me if the stat was just for new games and not recalculated for previous games, but I could imagine some people with thousands of games on their current record that might disagree with me on that point.
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par T-Bow » 11 Mai 2016 15:15

I don't think it is sufficient.
The fewer players involved, the faster the game completes - in an exponential way. As such, people may play smaller configurations only to climb faster.
The only option I see to fully solve this issue is to have separate rankings for each configuration.
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par Polomatt » 11 Mai 2016 15:55

I thought the same. :D
also that preserves for do the calculation again.
Totalement sourd, accepterait de faire l'ane pour avoir du son. (P. Dac)
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par potzer » 11 Mai 2016 19:03

T-Bow a écrit :I don't think it is sufficient.
The fewer players involved, the faster the game completes - in an exponential way. As such, people may play smaller configurations only to climb faster.
The only option I see to fully solve this issue is to have separate rankings for each configuration.


I don't see the problem.
A quick, average 2-player game participant will win 50% of their duels on average (100% + 0% + 100% + 0% + 100% + 0%) / 6 = 50%
an average player who prefers 6-player games will finish higher than 50% of their opponents on average if they get an equal distribution of #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 & #6 finishes: (100% + 80% + 60% + 40% +20% + 0%) / 6 = 50%

both players have an equal "% of opponents beaten" rating, even though the one who prefers duels has played more games.

What am I missing?
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par T-Bow » 11 Mai 2016 23:23

This is a generalization of the % issue.
If your objective is to be on top of the ELO ladder and configurations are mixed inside the same rating, for the same time spent on the website you would get much more points out of 2 player games. And these games are much less competitive on average than higher configurations due to the specific interaction that takes place as soon as more than 2 players are involved.
As such, a player with a higher ELO rating doesn't necessarily mean he is better. It may just mean that he played much more games in a very specific configuration, which doesn't say much about his/her capacity to perform well in the game as a whole or in other configurations.
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par CitizenZ » 12 Mai 2016 0:56

Just a quick thought to fan the flames. I personally don't play aiming to overscore most of the opponents, I play to win the game (and have fun and... ok !). It's nice trying to get the highest average rank playing a game, meaning you're allowed to consider yourself a rather good player... but in my opinion it makes no sense if you never win a game.

A, B, C & D play 3 games :
game1/ #1 A #2 B #3 C #4 D
game2/ #1 C #2 B #3 D #4 A
game3/ #1 D #2 B #3 A #4 C

Is B the best player ? He outscored the highest % of the players, good for him/her, but didn't win a game...
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Re: % of opponents beaten/% Des adversaires battus

Message par potzer » 13 Mai 2016 19:31

CitizenZ a écrit :Just a quick thought to fan the flames. I personally don't play aiming to overscore most of the opponents, I play to win the game (and have fun and... ok !). It's nice trying to get the highest average rank playing a game, meaning you're allowed to consider yourself a rather good player... but in my opinion it makes no sense if you never win a game.

A, B, C & D play 3 games :
game1/ #1 A #2 B #3 C #4 D
game2/ #1 C #2 B #3 D #4 A
game3/ #1 D #2 B #3 A #4 C

Is B the best player ? He outscored the highest % of the players, good for him/her, but didn't win a game...


I am about to say something no one has ever said in an internet discussion before:

You've made a great point. I agree with your argument.
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